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Jade and Roy finally have it out over Lian
Green Arrow (2023) #5Didn’t Jade once be willing to let Lian die because she could make another? Or something pretty callous and might’ve been bad writing? I just remember that Roy wasn’t in the wrong to keep Lian away from her mother who was having a villain moment, though that might’ve gotten erased from the timeline
Two Things To Note:
Lian’s death had absolutely NOTHING to do with anything Roy did or didn’t do as her father, but a lot of people in and out of the comics SOMEHOW got the idea it was his fault because he’s “self sabotaging and a failure.”
She very much did that in Villains United. She was forced to join the Secret Six by being told a bomb had been implanted in Lian’s head. Because Jade is still traumatized from a childhood in slavery she refused to be held captive again, so she slept with Catman to conceive a replacement child.
There’s been a lot of discussion over the years regarding if this was a natural progression of Jade’s character or shoddy, overly racist demonization. Gail Simone, who wrote Villain United, has stated she never writes Cheshire with redeeming qualities specifically because she murdered all those people by nuking Qurac. God knows I latched onto this. Someone even asked why a survivor of such extreme sexual abuse as Jade would even be willing to get pregnant a second time, let alone once.
I Cannot Stand when people, especially official writers, blame Roy for Lian’s death.
Lian was the most protected kid in DC comics, even before the events of Most Wanted. Roy does extensive (terrifying) interrogations and background checks for babysitters. In Family Man, we learn that her live-in nanny Omar (who is built like a tank, and seems to be ex-military) does background checks on her school friends’ parents before she goes for play dates. Roy has customised their New York brownstone from roof to sub-basement with security features and it is armed to the teeth, all to keep his daughter safe.
And she was killed while she was staying with her aunt. While Roy was in a coma.
I understand Jade blaming Roy, she was grieving. And of course, it’s completely in character for Roy to blame himself. If he hadn’t been on the Satellite, he would have been with her, probably out of Star. At the very least he would have died with her. But what happened to Lian was neither of her parents’ fault. If you want to blame any character, blame Ollie. It’s fun, and easy to do!
The writers very much tried to make it seem like Roy’s fault to reinforce the “he’s a self destructive loser” mentality they kept forcing onto him to justify what they did with him in Rise of Arsenal and Villains for Hire
Also, Jade’s comment about how she doesn’t deal with Roy’s world makes no sense. Her debut had her taking on the Titans when Starfire was on the team and she’s fought Wonder Woman twice.
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Jade and Roy finally have it out over Lian
Green Arrow (2023) #5Didn’t Jade once be willing to let Lian die because she could make another? Or something pretty callous and might’ve been bad writing? I just remember that Roy wasn’t in the wrong to keep Lian away from her mother who was having a villain moment, though that might’ve gotten erased from the timeline
Two Things To Note:
Lian’s death had absolutely NOTHING to do with anything Roy did or didn’t do as her father, but a lot of people in and out of the comics SOMEHOW got the idea it was his fault because he’s “self sabotaging and a failure.”
She very much did that in Villains United. She was forced to join the Secret Six by being told a bomb had been implanted in Lian’s head. Because Jade is still traumatized from a childhood in slavery she refused to be held captive again, so she slept with Catman to conceive a replacement child.
There’s been a lot of discussion over the years regarding if this was a natural progression of Jade’s character or shoddy, overly racist demonization. Gail Simone, who wrote Villain United, has stated she never writes Cheshire with redeeming qualities specifically because she murdered all those people by nuking Qurac. God knows I latched onto this. Someone even asked why a survivor of such extreme sexual abuse as Jade would even be willing to get pregnant a second time, let alone once.
I Cannot Stand when people, especially official writers, blame Roy for Lian’s death.
Lian was the most protected kid in DC comics, even before the events of Most Wanted. Roy does extensive (terrifying) interrogations and background checks for babysitters. In Family Man, we learn that her live-in nanny Omar (who is built like a tank, and seems to be ex-military) does background checks on her school friends’ parents before she goes for play dates. Roy has customised their New York brownstone from roof to sub-basement with security features and it is armed to the teeth, all to keep his daughter safe.
And she was killed while she was staying with her aunt. While Roy was in a coma.
I understand Jade blaming Roy, she was grieving. And of course, it’s completely in character for Roy to blame himself. If he hadn’t been on the Satellite, he would have been with her, probably out of Star. At the very least he would have died with her. But what happened to Lian was neither of her parents’ fault. If you want to blame any character, blame Ollie. It’s fun, and easy to do!
Blame Ollie guys :)
I very much will blame Ollie, because if he hadn’t been on his “We can do it better” crusade with Hal, Prometheus wouldn’t have gotten onto the JLA satellite by manipulating their group disguised as “Shazam” meaning Roy most likely wouldn’t have lost an arm and things wouldn’t have escalated to the point of Star City accidentally being destroyed
And MAYBE if Ollie hadn’t killed Prometheus and left his helmet there, everyone could’ve figured out how that flesh-eating bacteria infecting Roy’s arm was made so they could figure out how to properly treat the wound, so Roy wouldn’t have been going insane from his hallucinations brought on by the infected wound AND the drugs they were pumping into him while he was comatose.
@judedeluca I could understand Simone’s logic if she also didn’t try to make a bunch of other (white) villains sympathetic while also playing into racist tropes regarding Jade (that she claims she doesn’t like). She has said she hopes Jade nuking Qurac isn’t canon but honestly, even that story itself never made sense and basically seemed to exist to make Slade Wilson look better during his antihero phase when Wolfman was writing him. Jade actually did have standards prior to this. DC always had a streak of Orientalism when it came to writing Asian characters, especially Asian girls and women, but it was dialed up to 11 during the 90s and 2000s.
As for Lian’s death, I blame Prometheus and only Prometheus. I’m just glad Lian’s back.
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how did the question of “how much Chinese is in talia’s ancestry” get altered so much, like we’re playing telephone? i just saw a post about Asian women in comics, and Talia was included there for being half Chinese. Firstly, she’s more like a quarter Chinese and I am 90% certain that information about her mother wasn’t in canon. Secondly, Talia is canonically Arab! Arab people live in Asia! It’s not MENA, it’s supposed to be SWANA (southwest asia north africa). The region of Arab countries is called West Asia, not the orientalist name of Middle East. Lastly, you guys realize that watering down Asia to just East/Southeast is inaccurate and harmful and reeks of a western outlook? Asia is HUGE, and there are many ethnicities within. Like south asian like me, west asian, central asian, hey guess what? we’re all the same race - Asian! Let’s get rid of this assumption of what the word Asian means please. Talia belonged on that list because she is Arab/West Asian.
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winner of Patreon poll
psst, my commissions are open
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I mean logically Artemis should be more mixed than just bleached paper white reght?
Also I found there is this thing called rufous albinism, where african or poc can have red hair? It’s kinda cool but I wanna hear what y'all think hdhd
i LOVE THIS
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nothing much … just cass in a suit … that’s all … goodnight … || instagram
(via spiralcass)
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e 123 omega you would have loved sonic free riders
[this is from the team dark zine i made! you can find it all here]
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can’t believe I nearly forgot to share this
